It was a cool fall evening on the night of October 2nd outside of Warehouse on Watts, the venue where The Callous Daoboys were set to take the stage. Before the show, I, after a brief, hour-long stint in Philadelphia traffic, met up with bassist Jackie Buckalew for an interview. I was particularly stoked to have the opportunity to sit down with them, as interviews with Buckalew are scarce.
SO: How are you doing today, Jackie?
JB: I'm doing great, today we're in Philadelphia, playing at Warehouse on Watts. This tour has been really, really cool so far. Really really gratifying and we're just really excited about everything that's coming through for us right now.
SO: Alright Jackie, you joined the band in early 2018, correct?
JB: I joined in like November of 2017, and I was actually, it's funny, I was actually supposed to be a fill-in, 'cuz when we were parting ways with our original bassist, Carson hit me up and asked if I wanted to play, like you know, two or three shows and if I could even play bass, which I just started learning at the time, which is funny. I kinda learned in the process of learning the songs at the time. But yeah.
SO: So you joined a little under two years before release of Die On Mars, the debut album. What was it like joining the band at such an early stage?
JB: It was super interesting because they had released their first two EPs, My Dixie Wrecked and Animal Tetris, which I defend, and I wish we played more songs off of, but that's neither here nor there.
SO: I like 'em.
JB: So to be a part of the early, pre-production of "Die on Mars" was really, really cool, because I got to, you know, have a bit of a hand in it, come up with ideas and concepts for it, The experience of joining a band in the process of writing their first record is a little intimidating but I don't think I could have done it with any other people, honestly. Carson just, has such a way with writing and makes it so, so interesting and cool to work with him. It was really... It tested a lot of my abilities early on, and I think that's what really pushed me to adapt and grow along with The Callous Daoboys, y'know.
SO: I also agree, those first two albums, er, first two EPs are pretty sick.
JB: Right, like, they're so much fun to play. One of my favorite songs to play, ever, is "Mausoleum Neeson" off Animal Tetris. It's just got that big breakdown at the end, it's fun. It's a lot of fun.
SO: You guys have had quite the year. I do wanna talk about the tour, but first I wanna talk about my personal album of the year, and your third studio album, I Don't Want to See You In Heaven. I remember first hearing it in the Bandcamp early listening party and by the time the climax of "Country Song In Reverse" hit, I was absolutely floored.
JB: Thank you so much.
SO: How are you feeling about the reception to it?
JB: It's more than I could have ever anticipated, in a way. With this record, I wouldn't necessarily say I was worried about it, but I was very, very interested to see how both longtime fans of us and how new fans of us would, like, listen to it and ,you know, react to it. In the eyes of longtime fans who have known us as, y'know, super crazy and chaotic, which I think we still are, doing these songs like "Lemon", "Two-Headed Trout", "Body Horror For Birds" and making things cleaner, with more of like a pop focus was at the forefront of my mind when it was released, and I think people have really grown with them, and those are some of my favorite songs to play live now. And just the amount of coverage it's gotten as well, has been just a whirlwind to me. We had The Needle Drop, Anthony Fantano, review it on the main channel. No "y u no review", no anything like that, it was a main channel review, which is still pretty big, I would say. That's still a milestone for bands nowadays, which, y'know, you either love or hate him, it's a pretty powerful influence. To see that for our record was pretty mind-boggling to me, 'cuz I've been watching him for like, I don't know, almost a decade, y'know.
SO: He gave it a 7, right?
JB: Yeah, I was pretty pleasantly surprised by that cuz he had mentioned Celebrity Therapist a couple years before and he didn't shit on it or anything but there was like "I'm not totally sure this band is for me". I'm paraphrasing here but yeah. He wasn't exactly sure about it, so to see him really love it, er, not really love it, but to see him like it was really cool.
SO: Walk me through the writing process. How did I Don't Want to See You in Heaven come to be?
JB: So, one of the most distinct memories I have from the writing process was: I was sitting with Carson (Pace, frontman), when we were first coming up with the main riff, well, while he was playing the first riff of Mona Lisa with our... there's a certain pedal we use, which I won't spoil. We're not gonna give trade secrets here. And once he started fucking with that, we just knew that was gonna be a song. Writing process I think was pretty quick. I know Carson came up with a majority, if not all, of those demos while we were on tour. We were in Europe with bands like TesseracT and Unprocessed and I remember, the whole tour, in the green rooms he would just be, headphones on, guitar-in-hand, just fuckin' hashing shit out. And he'll send all these demos to us to gather feedback and our thoughts and everything like that. Just how quick it was and how cool the songs were was just... everything fell together so quickly, I feel like. I could be wrong, because I'm not in the main driver's seat with that. I feel like it came together quicker than some of our other records. It felt very natural.
SO: Whether it be a Bjork interpolation on Country Song In Reverse, or "Distracted by The Mona Lisa" featuring what I like to call "Fallous OutBoys", The Daoboys are a band of many influences.
JB: For sure.
SO: What, er, what influenced you when working on this record?
JB: In terms of me specifically, in terms of my playing style and the vocals that I like to do, I'm inspired by the heavier side of, like, brutal death metal, hardcore stuff, all that sort of sphere, and I was just really trying to push myself to get these super guttural sounds that I've never really perfected yet. So I would say bands like, I dunno, Dying Fetus, but for specific tracks, going back to "Distracted by The Mona Lisa", I always thought that song and that riff could be a Finch cut, or something like that. That super early-2000's post-hardcore/nu-metal sound with the big choruses, the singalong stuff, and the heavy instrumentation. I feel like we saw that and kinda wanted to incorporate it. I'd say bands like Glassjaw, as well, for sure. Glassjaw is a huge influence on us, always has been. But I would say we just wanted to expand more of our repertoire into singalongs, pop choruses, more rock stuff, if you will.
SO: You guys filmed three music videos for four songs, with each one being wildly different than the last. Which one did you have the most fun working on?
JB: Doing the video for "Two-Headed Trout" and Unreality was one of the coolest things we've ever experienced, because it was the first time we had worked at a studio for a music video. We had done shooting at churches where our friends had worked at, we had done shooting at, y'know, whatever rehearsal space, and we had just done shooting in our backyards and basements. To be in a studio, with props and costumes and these huge, expensive cameras and a crew, and set pieces, was super cool for us, and one of my fondest memories. Shoutout to Digital Thunderdome Studios for that.
SO: Which one posed the most difficulty working on and why ?
JB: I would also say "Unreality" and "Two-Headed Trout" because, like I said, it was our first time working at a studio so I guess we really didn't know what to expect with that. It was a lot for us, with all the shots we needed to do, all the action shots, and dialogue for the first time. I remember having to read lines out loud and I was like, "Oh my god, I'm gonna fuck this up so bad, it's gonna be really embarrasing." But I think we really pushed ourselves with that to make it as, maybe not believable, but as authentic... we really pushed ourselves to make it the best we could.
SO: You guys have been on the road a lot this year. You started this year in support of Silverstein, and then almost immediately afterwards, you're off in support of Chiodos. Is there a certain pressure that comes with opening for bands of that size?
JB: I would say so, for sure. That Silverstein tour was the first tour on a bus we'd ever done, cuz we were sharing one with a band called Thursday, which I am now a superfan of.
SO: They're great.
JB: One of the best to ever do it. So, there is a lot of pressure in that regard, because you're sharing a living space with a whole 'nother band and crew and you've gotta be respectful of everyone and clean up after yourself in this confined space with your peers and the people you're working with. I think it was a bit intimidating at first, but the guys in Thursday were so, so chill and nice and funny and just made the whole thing super easy. Playing bigger venues and theaters is also... I still get a little nervous whenever we go on, because there could be like two thousand people at these shows and none of them could be here for your band. And I think I've come to terms with that, but at first, playing for these huge crowds who are just not reacting or not being receptive was a little bit of a heart stopper because I'm like "Oh god, everyone hates me. Everyone hates this. They're gonna say The Callous Daoboys was the worst band they've ever seen, because they wanted to see TesseracT and not us." That's no shade at TesseracT, by the way. They just have a very loyal fanbase, I would say.
SO: ArcTanGent Festival 2025, you're joined by Hidden Mothers vocalist Liam Knowles for a combo cover of Enter Shikari's "Sorry, You're Not A Winner", and Norma Jean's "I Used to Hate Cell Phones, Now I Hate Car Accidents". You guys really brought the house down with that one. I have to ask, who's idea was that?
JB: Well, I mean, to do the Enter Shikari into Norma Jean cover was definitely Carson's brain, and I think that worked out super well. At first I was kinda bummed, because I wanted to play the breakdown in "Sorry, You're Not A Winner" really bad.
SO: Oh, it's so awesome.
JB: It's so good. But it's a seamless transition that I think both surprised people and made a lot of people very happy. I had always wanted to cover that song. Enter Shikari is a band that... This is a band I missed on the influences question 'cuz like, one of my biggest influences in terms of this band because I feel like we are very similar, well maybe not similar these days, but Take to The Skies was THE metalcore record for me when I was in school. I thought all the breakdowns and heavy parts with synths was like, I had never heard anything like it before in my life. I had always aspired and looked up to them, so to play one of their songs, their biggest song, at a festival in the UK was a very full circle moment for me that I don't think I could ever really forget in my life.
SO: Do you wanna, at some point, do a cover where you get to play the breakdown?
JB: Oh, I would love that. I would go crazy. I'd be front-flipping off the stage.
SO: I did that song at karaoke once, it's so fun.
JB: It's good stuff. Good crowd participation too.
SO: Absolutely. This tour marks your first full US headliner, right? How's it going?
JB: I'd say for our first headliner, it's going super well. A lot of these shows are sold out, which is pretty incredible. It's always good to see that. I think it was the right choice to wait for a long time before really embarking on our own headlining US tour that spans across to the east coast from the west, and I think that's paid off, because people seem really hyped about it and it's been such a cool ride so far. Some of my favorite shows we've ever played have been on this tour. Pittsburgh, at Preserving Underground last night, was just fucking top notch. We got upgraded to the big room over there, which at first I was unsure about, but it just filled out so nicely. And everyone was like, we had the most stage divers that show. And on the opposite end, at least in scale, starting this tour in South Florida, at American Legion Post 92, shoutout Equinox Booking, shoutout Jeff, was such a cool moment, because I had been keeping up with them for a long time, and I've also done a lot of fliers for Jeff and Equinox for the Legion. So to be there in person, and to have a set there, and for it to go really well and have kids dancing and jumping on top of each other and killing each other, it was so fucking cool. I dunno, I'm just very grateful this tour has been so well recieved and so well attended. The energy of everyone here is just so incredible. And the package as well, UnityTX , Your Spirit Dies, and Crush++, have been the nicest, sweetest people. So fucking funny and everyone gets along super well. It's been one of the most gratifying tours we've ever been on.
SO: Are there any challenges that had presented themselves while touring headline that you hadn't encountered as a support act?
JB: Oh yeah, big time. Mainly just the amount of merch you need to have. The first night before we left, before we did rehearsals, er, I think it was after we did rehearsals, we got in a shipment of all the merch we were going to leave with, and it came out to something around 30 or 32 boxes that we had to open, sort, and organize into respective plastic containers which we have, I dunno, twelve of.
SO: Holy shit.
JB: I dunno, I could be totally wrong about the exact numbers but more than we've ever had to take with us before and more than we've ever had to set up. We have someone who's doing photography and content for us, Nat Lacuna of the bands Holy Ghost Tabernacle Choir and Rosemary Nods Upon The Grave. Love them, they have been such an angel for us on this tour, 'cuz they know how to organize merch better than we can. And I feel bad, because I don't want them to do more work than they have to, but sometimes I'm like "Nat, can you please help me set up, this is so much. " They've just been a huge hand and we can't thank them enough.
SO: Yeah, Nat seems super sick, I think I've talked with them once or twice over Twitter or something. Alright, er, recently at your Chicago show, you were joined by Nat, and by SPLITJAW's vocalist, Maude Stout. How does having guest vocalists on a live track contribute to the energy of a performance?
JB: I think it's always such a cool moment when bands have members of bands they're touring with, or just friends who are in different bands that they're homies with, or anyone coming up and just ripping a guest vocal is always a highlight for me and always very cool to see. We wanna have that incorporated as much as we can. We will always ask the bands we're on tour with or our friends in whatever city if they wanna come up and do some shit. One of my favorites to have up with us is River, from Ballista, shoutout by the way. Cream of the crop. We love her, we love having anyone come up and do their stuff. It's always great.
SO: Hell yeah. You guys are on the road for most of the year. You're going from city to city, state to state, country to country, with little time to pump the brakes in-between. I have to know, what keeps you going? How do you keep the consistent energy when you're on the road so much?
JB: LiquidIV, mostly. No, but we all carry our own personal little hobbies with us. Like, I have my laptop with us to play video games on, Marty keeps his brain sane by doing origami and stuff like that, reading, just indulging yourself in your personal interests or your other hobbies while you're moving from place to place with all that downtime in the van, or wherever you're touring in, just to keep your mind active, so you're not just staring up at the ceiling on a six hour drive.
SO: You're game of choice is modern skate games, right?
JB: I mean, yes and no. I wouldn't say modern, my game of choice is Tony Hawk.
SO: Modded, I meant. Sorry.
JB: Oh yeah. That's crazy, I've been playing this mod of Tony Hawk's American Wasteland called "Rethawed" that just imports all the characters from every Tony Hawk game and has most of the levels from the series. People can create their own and upload custom character models and shit, it's just fun.
SO: Hell yeah.
JB: I like that, I've been playing Ghost of Tsushima, replaying it I should say, that game is fuckin' incredible. What else... I know Carson and Layne, our sound guy on this tour, have been getting really into FIFA on this tour. They've been just having fuckin' wars on these drives. But yeah, I like just anything kind of casual that I can just pick up and just ride around and have fun in for an hour at a time. That's usually what I go to. But I also like games like, I've been playing Mario Odyssey as well.
SO: So good.
JB: One of the best Mario platformers we've got.
SO: Absolutely. You played the Skate 4 early access yet?
JB: I have, and I have mixed feelings about it. Maybe something I won't delve totally into on the nu metal podcast but, I think it plays great. That's it.
SO: Yeah, I agree. Okay, the day of your September 23rd show, Carson contracted an upper respiratory infection, but rather than cancel, you chose to have a "Daoboys Karaoke Night". It had to have been an incredibly surreal experience, but can you describe what it was like to perform those songs without your lead vocalist and with somebody entirely new?
JB: Well, it was definitely different from anything else we've ever done, but I think that show was some of the most fun I've ever had. Not at Carson's expense of course, because obviously him getting sick and not being able to do vocals is not good and we don't want that to happen again, but just turning something like that into this beautiful connection, because we had Crush++ join us for "Lemon," we had Nat come up and do songs, Carson actually played guitar and bass for our old Die on Mars tracks which I hopped on vocals for.
SO: I saw that, it was pretty sick.
JB: It was very fun. Don't get to do that often, so I relish any moment I get to run around with a microphone.
SO: Amen to that. How did that idea come about? Why not just cancel? What was your thought process behind Daoboys Karaoke Night?
JB: We are super averse to the idea of cancelling a show under most circumstances, unless it's totally unavoidable. And I feel like this one was something that we just sort of had to adapt to and play to the best of our abilities, just so we didn't have to cancel it. People wanted to see us in Salt Lake City, so we wanted to play a show for them. And also, cancelling would just fuck over the rest of the package, as well. Crush++, Your Spirit Dies, UnityTX, would not be able to play to anyone or sell any merch, and it would just be a total loss for them. We just... it was just unacceptable for us to do that. And even if it resulted in a show that maybe at one hundred percent, we wanted to do what we could, and send people home happy.
SO: Next time you guys do one of those, I will fly my ass out.
JB: Get up here!
SO: "Lemon" is probably like a bucket list karaoke item. You've got 26 stops on the Heaven Across North America Tour, and then 21 on your Heaven Across Europe and UK Tour, are there any stops you wanted to make but weren't able to?
JB: Yeah, I'm a bit bummed that this didn't end up going to Seattle or Portland. I also know people in Canada were really mad at us because we called it "Heaven Across North America" and we didn't go up to Canada, which... I'm sorry. I'm sorry Toronto. I'm sorry Montreal. I'm sorry Vancouver. I'm sorry Saskatoon. I'm sorry... uhhh... fuckin' ... I'm sorry Newfoundland.
SO: After the Heaven Across North America Tour, you're performing at Christmas Burns Red, and then next, the aforementioned Heaven Across Europe and UK Tour. But what comes after that? What's next for the Callous Daoboys?
JB: I know we're working on another full US tour. I won't spoil with who because I can't do that. I know we're gonna keep 2026 busy though, and I think we're gonna be coming to a lot of places people wanna see us at. Definitely doing another full US, definitely gonna be in Europe again. I know we just got announced for a festival in, I believe it was Finland.
SO: Yeah, I think so. With Bring Me The Horizon! How does that feel?
JB: I think it's going to be very, very cool to see them, because I don't think I've ever seen them before. They were a monumental band for me, back in 2007. Shoutout to my sister for showing me Pray For Plagues.
SO: Oh yeah. I've got a "Count Your Blessings" bracelet.
JB: That's awesome. That goes so crazy.
SO: Yeah! Alright, to close it out... What is your favorite nu metal track, and why?
JB: Oh, my favorite track? Aw, I thought you were gonna ask me, like, bands. Oh, this is so much harder.
SO: Okay, you can answer: track, band, or album.
JB: Well, okay, I wanna at least name a couple bands.
SO: Alright.
JB: I dunno if they count, but I said it earlier. Finch. What It Is To Burn is one of the best records ever. Rock stuff. I think Sevendust is mad underrated. I think they deserve so much more respect. This isn't my track, but "Denial"? Come on now. Finch, Sevendust, and, goddamn, I mean... It's Slipknot. It's gotta be Slipknot. I think that would have to go for my track as well. I think it's gotta be fuckin' "Sic". That being the intro track to one of the best nu metal records ever, and arguably the nu metal record that set everything off for the genre, I know people might get mad at me for that, but it's just such an insane way to open an album. Like with the noisy fuckin' intro... I'm not gonna air drum it or anything, but I really want to though. It's a phenomenal track, phenomenal opener for a phenomenal record and a phenomenal band.
SO: Absolutely. The Agenda did a tierlist, er, a ranking of all the Slipknot albums and that album was number one, I think.
JB: It's gotta be, right? It's gotta be that or Iowa, right?
SO: I think Iowa was number 2.
JB: Yeah, that sounds fair. Sorry Iowa truthers out there. I love that record. It's not self-titled, though.
Once again, a special thank you to Jackie Buckalew for sitting down with me. Next time, I'll devote a segment to Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.
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THE CALLOUS DAOBOYS TOUR DATES
12/12 Lancaster, PA
02/15 Amsterdam, NL
02/16 Eindhoven, NL Effenaar
02/17 Hamburg, DE Hafenklang
02/18 Berlin, DE Badehaus
02/19 Prague, CZ
02/20 Budapest, HU
02/22 Wien, AT Arena
02/23 Bologna, IT Freakout Club
02/24 Munich, DE
02/25 Zurich, CH Dynamo Werk 21
02/26 Koln, DE
02/29 Manchester, UK @ Warehouse
03/01 Bristol, UK @ The Exchange
03/02 Nottingham, UK @ Rescue Rooms
03/03 Southampton, UK @ Joiners
03/04 Brighton, UK @ Green Door Store
03/05 London, UK @ New Cross Inn
03/06 Leeds, UK @ Brudenell Social Club
03/07 Glasgow, UK @ The Hug & Pint
03/08 Newcastle, UK @ Key Club
03/09 Oxford, UK @ Jericho Tavern
03/10 Haarlem, NL Patronaat
